Industry Relations With Rob Hahn And Greg Robertson

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg break down what happened at NAR NXT in Houston — from the empty expo floor to major MLS–Association policy changes. Greg shares on-the-ground insights from meetings, parties, and conversations with MLS leaders, while Rob analyzes the strategic implications of NAR's 18-point PAG recommendations and what he calls the "emancipation" of MLSs. They also discuss winners and losers of the policy shifts, potential impacts on associations, vendors, portals, and brokers, and tee up a future episode on NAR's new strategic plan. Key Takeaways Expo Floor Shift: Major real estate brands were largely absent, and new vendors were mostly centralized in the REACH kiosk area. NAR's pavilion took up a large portion of the floor. Tightened Meeting Access: Vendors and some MLS staff were denied entry to MLS policy roundtables, signaling increased NAR gatekeeping. Policy Changes = MLS Freedom: NAR repealed disciplinary guide

The Listing Bits Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg dig into expectations for the NAR Annual Conference, MLS attendance patterns, and broader industry sentiment heading into 2025. They cover speculation around possible committee decisions, how the settlement fallout is (or isn't) impacting MLS membership and commissions, and the overall vibe leading into the event. The conversation then shifts to affordability, mortgage rates, and the recent proposal of a 50-year mortgage. They close with discussion of a new Zillow/RESPA-related lawsuit, Rocket/Redfin implications, and observations from Zillow Unlock. Key Takeaways Some MLS leaders are skipping NAR due to light agenda relevance, travel issues, and lack of urgency. Despite settlement fears, MLS membership has not dropped significantly, and commissions have not fallen. Rob argues the industry culture—not MLS policy—has propped up commissions. Greg suggests the settlement was overhyped given limited negative f

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg discuss Zillow's recent privacy policy changes to Follow Up Boss and the growing debate around data use and agent trust. They examine how Zillow's communication strategy has affected its reputation, drawing comparisons to past acquisitions like dotloop and ShowingTime. The conversation explores whether this move signals a broader industry shift in how tech companies handle customer data, AI integration, and transparency with agents. Key Takeaways Zillow's new Follow Up Boss privacy policy grants broader access to agent and client data. Rob believes the change isn't malicious but calls it a major communication failure by Zillow. Greg points out that Zillow lacks a dedicated team for agent-facing product communication. The term "mutual customer" triggered agent backlash and should have been caught before release. Both agree the issue highlights a pattern of Zillow "revising promises" made in previous

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg dive into Sean Frank's Inman article, "NAR and the Real Estate Industry's Relevance Problem." They discuss how outdated MLS technology and excessive bureaucracy are stifling innovation in real estate. From permissioning delays to governance breakdowns, the hosts explore why MLS systems feel stuck in "Windows 95 mode" and debate how consolidation or standardization could spark change. Key Takeaways MLS permissioning and governance are major obstacles to innovation. Outdated tech systems like Matrix and Paragon still dominate the industry. Excessive committee layers make it nearly impossible for startups to launch quickly. Greg proposes a standardized, simplified data licensing process to fast-track innovation. Rob argues the problem stems from bureaucracy, not infrastructure or tech. NAR and CMLS lack the power to enforce national-level reform, leaving MLSs fragmented. Both agree the industry ne

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview In this episode, Rob and Greg dive into the controversy surrounding CRMLS's End User License Agreement (EULA) and the debate over MLS data ownership. The discussion begins with updates in the MLS world that brought attention to how CRMLS's EULA—originally updated for two-factor authentication—resurfaced older language asserting MLS ownership of listing data. Rob argues that this fundamental change to broker data rights was poorly communicated, while Greg defends CRMLS, emphasizing the operational benefits and the long-standing nature of the clause. The two debate whether brokers were properly informed, what this means for data copyright, and if MLSs should have done more outreach when the change occurred. Key Takeaways Origin of the Issue: CRMLS's update around two-factor authentication drew attention to older language asserting MLS ownership of listing data. Miscommunication Fallout: Many brokers—and even industry i

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg dive into the recent OpenAI Developers Conference announcement showcasing Zillow’s integration into ChatGPT. They break down how this partnership blurs the lines between traditional search engines and AI “answer machines,” debate whether MLS and IDX policies are ready for this shift, and discuss what it means for agents, brokers, and the future of data regulation in real estate. Key Takeaways Zillow’s new ChatGPT integration allows users to search listings directly within AI, sparking debate about IDX compliance. Rob compares the current AI moment to Google’s early days of web indexing and the initial MLS “search engine exemption.” Greg argues that ChatGPT’s approach is more controlled than Google’s, operating as an app within OpenAI’s ecosystem. Discussion on how AI’s ability to filter and evaluate listings (e.g., “best homes for big dogs”) goes beyond traditional search behavior. Rob questions wh

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! This special crossover episode brings together James and Keith from Real Estate Insiders Unfiltered with Rob and Greg from Industry Relations. The group dives into Compass’ planned acquisition of Anywhere, debating what it means for brokerages, portals, and the future of private listings in residential real estate. Key Takeaways Collaboration between Industry Relations and Real Estate Insiders Unfiltered. Compass’ acquisition of Anywhere could reshape brokerage structure—if executed successfully. Breakage risk: agent retention is critical to Compass handling its debt load. Debate over Anywhere’s role: “king” of brokerages or not? Zillow remains the dominant power. Zillow’s potential responses range from lobbying to starting a brokerage/franchise. Private listings could trigger an “arms race,” though consumer tolerance is debated. Rocket’s acquisitions (Redfin, Mr. Cooper) highlight end-to-end strategies but raise ad

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!  Overview Rob and Greg return to break down CMLS 2025 in Toronto, offering their candid takes on the good, the bad, and the ugly of the event. From bold leadership discussions and MLS operational shifts to vendor frustrations and AI speculation, they cover the hot topics shaping the industry. The episode also dives into the Compass/Anywhere merger, vendor challenges, and how AI may (or may not) reshape real estate. Key Takeaways CMLS 2025 Recap: Despite venue issues, the conference featured strong panels on MLS operations and leadership . Bold Leadership: Key discussions included separating associations and MLSs, technology shifts like AWS migration, and communication strategies for major decisions  Compass/Anywhere Merger: MLS execs showed a pragmatic stance, with little immediate panic over the deal . Vendor Struggles: Vendors continue to face slow MLS sales cycles, entrenched incumbents, and a “glacial pace” of change

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Rob and Greg dive into the major industry shake-up: Compass acquiring Anywhere. They discuss the financial implications, consolidation trends, the future of MLS rules, and what the move means for private listings, brokerages, and consumers. The conversation also covers how competitors like Zillow, Keller Williams, and eXp might respond. Key Takeaways Compass acquires Anywhere in an all-stock deal valued at $1.6B, assuming $2.6B in debt. Combined, Compass and Anywhere account for roughly one-third of U.S. real estate transaction volume and one in six agents. Discussion on antitrust concerns and whether regulators will intervene. Compass’s acquisition could accelerate industry consolidation, making scale critical for brokerages. Anywhere’s conservative approach historically shaped industry standards; the acquisition may shift how private listings are treated. Debate over whether consumers really want private/exclusive l

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! In this episode, Rob and Greg discuss the recent assassination of Charlie Kirk and its impact on the nation and the real estate industry. They reflect on the cultural divide, responses from industry leaders, and the broader implications for civil discourse within real estate and beyond. Key Takeaways Rob and Greg acknowledge the tragedy and its personal and national impact. The event highlights concerns about the erosion of civil debate and the celebration of violence. Industry responses are contrasted with prior public statements (e.g., George Floyd), raising questions of consistency and communication. Discussion on free speech, leadership accountability, and the role of professional organizations in addressing hate. Broader reflections on polarization in America and hopes for reducing harmful rhetoric across divides. Connect with Rob and Greg Rob’s Website  Greg’s Website    Watch us on YouTube   Our Sponsors: Cotal

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Rob and Greg tackle the pressing issue of housing affordability, reacting to reports that the Trump administration may declare a national housing emergency. They debate potential federal approaches, including deregulation, incentives, zoning reform, and changes to mortgage lending. The conversation also shifts to Zillow’s enforcement against exclusive listings and what the data may actually reveal about Compass’s inventory. Key Takeaways Reports suggest the Trump administration is considering declaring a national housing emergency. Federal action is constrained by state and local control, but incentives and funding leverage could encourage zoning reform. Deregulation, such as loosening zoning restrictions and NIMBY barriers, could expand housing supply. Debate over mortgage financing: Rob argues government backing of 30-year fixed mortgages inflates housing prices, while Greg stresses the social good of homeownership. A

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! In this episode, Rob and Greg dive into the balance between technology and human connection in real estate. From car tech frustrations to the rise of “dumb phones,” they discuss how AI and digital tools are reshaping the industry—and whether that’s always a good thing. The conversation explores where technology truly adds value versus where it risks eroding the personal relationships that define real estate. They also touch on Opendoor’s evolving agent strategy and the broader AI hype cycle in business. Key Takeaways Tech minimalism is gaining traction as people push back against screens and automation in everyday life . Real estate may benefit more from authentic human connections than from full automation. AI is both transformative and overhyped—efficiency gains often come with trade-offs. Tools like DocuSign provide convenience but may reduce valuable informal interactions. Opendoor’s new “Key Connections” program sh

  The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Rob and Greg dive into the latest developments in the real estate industry, including Andrea’s move to Real Estate News, Anne Marie’s push for MLS independence, and ongoing debates around realtor commissions and compliance. They also examine a new lawsuit challenging enforcement of buyer representation agreements and revisit the idea of sub-agency as a potential solution to persistent steering problems. Key Takeaways Andrea at Real Estate News: Andrea joins Real Estate News, raising hopes for stronger investigative journalism in the industry. MLS Independence: Anne Marie’s upcoming retirement sparks discussion on MLS separation from associations and questions of ownership structure. Realtor Commissions Rising: Despite reforms, commissions are reportedly up, prompting concerns over steering and transparency. ZEA v. NAR Lawsuit: A self-represented broker challenges MLSs and NAR over lack of enforcement of buyer agreements

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Rob and Greg dive into the shakeup at Opendoor after CEO Carrie Wheeler’s resignation. They break down the role activist investors and meme stock energy played, and debate whether iBuying still has a future. The conversation turns into advice for Opendoor’s new leadership, touching on strategy, agent relations, and branding. Key Takeaways Carrie Wheeler resigns as Opendoor CEO amid activist investor pressure and retail investor hype. Debate over whether iBuying is viable long-term, given seller expectations and buyer demands for turnkey homes. Criticism that Opendoor and Zillow acted like house flippers instead of true market makers. Suggested strategies for Opendoor: Sell homes “as is” rather than renovating. Continue offering full buyer agent compensation. Build out an exclusive “coming soon” marketplace for discounted listings. Rebrand messaging closer to “we buy ugly houses” but focused on hassle-free transact

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Rob and Greg welcome Coleton Boyer from OnTuesday.com for a spirited debate on whether AI will truly disrupt the real estate industry. They explore AI’s potential to improve lead generation, client service, and agent efficiency, while questioning if these benefits will actually level the playing field or further concentrate market share among top agents. The conversation touches on ethics, the human element in client relationships, and how AI could reshape industry business models and pricing structures. Key Takeaways AI in Real Estate: Potential for personalized marketing at scale, faster client responses, and improved efficiency. Lead Generation: AI could enable unique, data-driven outreach, though ethics and authenticity are debated. Client Service: Tools can parse documents instantly, freeing agents to focus on relationships and strategy. Democratization vs. Consolidation: Debate over whether AI empowers new agents or

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! In this episode, Rob and Greg recap Inman Connect San Diego, discuss the current state of the real estate industry, and explore the hype and utility of AI in real estate. They cover industry gossip, shifting executive roles, macroeconomic forecasts, and heated disagreements on whether AI truly enhances the client experience. Key Takeaways Inman Connect Recap Greg shares his experience from Inman Connect, including a pre-party at his studio and the CEO Connect session. NAR Membership Projections Kevin Sears (NAR President) revealed current membership is ~65,000 above projections at 1.4M; however, NAR is budgeting for 1.2M members in 2026. Agent Churn Annual agent churn is approximately 20%, meaning roughly all members cycle every five years. CoStar vs. Zillow Lawsuit The buzz at CEO Connect centered around CoStar suing Zillow over image copyrights. Rob believes CoStar has a solid strategy involving strategic acquisitions t

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! In this episode, Rob and Greg dive into Zillow’s legal strategy in its defense against Compass's lawsuit, focusing on Zillow’s surprising claim that it only facilitates a “single-digit” percentage of real estate transactions. They debate the strategic implications of this position—especially how it could undermine Zillow’s perception of power in the industry—and analyze the broader impact on listing presentations, MLS relationships, and competitors like Compass and Homes.com. They also preview the upcoming Inman Connect in San Diego and discuss potential industry sentiment and attendance given the market’s current challenges.   Key Takeaways Zillow's Legal Strategy: Zillow argues it is not a monopoly, claiming it only facilitates a single-digit percentage of home transactions. Strategic Risk: Rob questions why Zillow would make this claim, suggesting it weakens their perceived power and brand strength in the industry. Agent

  The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! In this episode, Rob and Greg cover recent legal decisions, MLS policy shifts, and major moves by real estate portals. They discuss the dismissal of Homie’s lawsuit against NAR and large brokerages, examine NWMLS’s new referral fee disclosure rule, and analyze the implications of Realtor.com acquiring Zenlist. The episode also reviews Homes.com’s latest seller-focused marketing campaign and raises questions about portal strategy and industry alignment. Key Takeaways Homie v. NAR Lawsuit Dismissed – The case brought by Homie against NAR and the big brokerages was dismissed. Rob and Greg discuss why the case failed and how omitting local MLSs may have weakened it. NWMLS Referral Fee Disclosure Policy – Northwest MLS now requires disclosure of referral fees. Rob questions the consumer impact, while Greg views it as a proactive move by the MLS. Realtor.com Acquires Zenlist – Realtor.com purchased Zenlist. Greg sees it as a po

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg tackle the thorny question of who should have access to real estate listing data. Prompted by a Wired article about college students using Zillow to assess classmates’ wealth, Rob argues that the real estate industry should move some listing details—like interior photos and price history—behind a broker-consumer relationship. Greg pushes back, defending the value of open data and the impossibility of cleanly separating legitimate buyers from “random voyeurs.” The conversation dives deep into VOW rules, privacy, and what it means to be a consumer in 2025. Key Takeaways Prompt for the Episode – A Wired article reveals that young people are using Zillow to snoop on classmates’ family wealth, raising privacy questions. Rob’s Proposal – Rob suggests moving data like days on market, interior photos, and price change history to the VOW feed instead of IDX. VOW vs. IDX – They revi

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg unpack the lawsuit Compass filed against Zillow over its ZLAS (Zillow Listing Agreement Standard) policy. They debate the strength of Compass’s legal claims, the language cited in the complaint, and what the alleged behind-the-scenes meetings reveal about Zillow’s influence in the real estate industry. Rob argues that Zillow is exercising monopoly power—even if it’s not illegal—while Greg pushes back on whether that power is absolute or harmful. Key Takeaways Compass Lawsuit Against Zillow – Compass has sued Zillow over ZLAS, and Rob and Greg break down what the complaint says, especially around alleged comments from Zillow executives. Redfin’s Role in the Lawsuit – The lawsuit describes a phone call between Redfin CEO Glenn Kelman and Compass’s Robert Reffkin, which raises questions about Redfin’s alignment or neutrality. Allegations from the Zillow Meeting – The