Industry Relations With Rob Hahn And Greg Robertson

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview In this special episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg take a break from real estate to talk about one of their shared passions: music. They explore the most transformative artists and bands across genres from the 70s through today. Their conversation dives deep into the cultural impact of acts like Nirvana, Depeche Mode, NWA, and Metallica, and whether artists like Kanye West, Jay-Z, or Eminem changed the landscape or simply excelled within it. Key Takeaways What Makes an Artist Transformative – Rob and Greg define “transformative” as artists who changed culture or shifted their genre’s direction. Rock, Pop, and Hair Metal – From The Police and Joy Division to Motley Crue and Metallica, they debate which bands truly left a mark. New Wave and Synth Pop – A back-and-forth on whether bands like Depeche Mode, Erasure, and Eurythmics defined the New Wave era. The Rise of Hip-Hop – Analysis of Public Enemy, NWA,

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg reflect on a recent panel discussion hosted by the Orange County Association of REALTORS®. They discuss the incentives that drive agent and broker behavior, the value and vulnerabilities of the MLS in a post-settlement world, and the broader structural changes facing the real estate industry. The first half of the conversation also includes a candid exchange on trades as a career path and the shifting economic landscape for young adults. Key Takeaways   MLS Incentive Structures – A deep dive into how policy changes have affected the incentive for brokers to remain in the MLS, especially with the decline of enforceable compensation. Broker Power and Consolidation – Why the largest brokerages may now have more incentive to operate independently of the MLS and what that means for smaller firms. Agent-Level Impact – Rob and Greg question whether large-scale policy debates truly affect everyday agents and argue that most industry drama doesn’t change the wo

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg recap the 2025 NAR Midyear Meetings in Washington, D.C., discussing key industry developments, MLS policy changes, and behind-the-scenes dynamics. Topics include the repeal of the commingling ban, updates to NAR’s controversial 10-5 speech policy, and ongoing MLS consolidation. They also cover vendor presence, association politics, and speculation around leadership changes in CMLS.   Key Takeaways   Compass “Protest” at Midyear – Greg recounts organizing a publicity stunt in front of Compass’s hotel to promote Tuesday.com  Repeal of Co-mingling Ban – Discussion on how NAR’s removal of the commingling restriction could impact listing syndication and MLS relevance. 10-5 Policy Changes – Rob and Greg unpack the revision of NAR’s hate speech rule, its political implications, and the proposal for a “conduct unbecoming” clause. MLS Consolidation – A growing theme from the meetings was consolidation, with T3 data showing Bright MLS now leading in subscriber

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg run a thought experiment: What if we’re entering a true buyer’s market? They walk through ten major industry topics—from antitrust litigation to portals, AI, and MLS relevance—and analyze how each might shift if buyers suddenly gained the upper hand. Along the way, they debate policy, technology, and market psychology, drawing connections between historical trends and current market signals. Watch us on YouTube!   Links The U.S. Housing Market Has Nearly 500,000 More Sellers Than Buyers—the Most on Record. That Will Likely Cause Home Prices to Fall   Key Takeaways   Antitrust & Legal Landscape – Discussion of how a buyer’s market might (or might not) affect current and future antitrust lawsuits in real estate. Government Regulation – Exploration of potential political reactions, including pressure on corporate landlords, affordability policy, or even renewed interest in rent control. Tech-Enabled Brokerages – Examination of whether brokerages like

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg analyze Zillow’s recently released ZLAS policy language and debate whether it reflects a shift in Zillow’s priorities. They discuss the implications of allowing broker direct feeds, the enforcement challenges around delayed marketing, and whether Zillow’s current stance can still be considered “consumer first.” The conversation also explores how MLSs and major brokerages are interpreting ZLAS and how this policy intersects with Clear Cooperation rules and VOW/IDX frameworks. Watch us on YouTube!   Links Howard Hanna in open rebellion against Clear Cooperation Policy - https://www.inman.com/2025/05/23/howard-hanna-in-open-rebellion-against-clear-cooperation-policy/ Zillow's ZLAS: Make Zillow Great Again - https://substack.com/home/post/p-164029933 Hoby Hanna don't like the rules - https://www.vendoralley.com/2025/05/27/hoby-hanna-dont-like-the-rules/ Key Takeaways Zillow’s ZLAS Policy Language – The official policy now allows listings to be submitted via ML

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg explore the idea of the elusive “end-to-end platform” in real estate. Prompted by Lower’s acquisition of Movoto, they revisit decades of efforts by portals and brokerages to deliver a seamless transaction experience—from search to closing. They examine why this model has struggled to take hold in residential real estate, compare it to consumer experiences like Amazon and Tesla, and consider whether the real estate agent has always been the true end-to-end solution.   Key Takeaways   Lower Acquires Movoto – Discussion of the strategic rationale behind a mortgage company acquiring a real estate portal. Why End-to-End Platforms Struggle – Analysis of why Zillow, Redfin, and others have failed to deliver a fully integrated homebuying experience. The Agent as Platform – Debate over whether real estate agents already fulfill the role of a true end-to-end solution for consumers. Lessons from Other Industries – Examples from Amazon, Tesla, and travel that hi

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg examine CoStar’s recent announcement that Homes.com will boost listings banned on Zillow. They discuss whether this strategy is aimed at consumers or brokers, and whether it signals a broader battle for power in the real estate portal space. They also explore the potential implications of a proposed Illinois bill that would require public listing access by law, and debate what government involvement could mean for MLSs, agents, and listing distribution.   Watch us on YouTube!   Links: Homes.com will 'boost' listings that are banned on Zillow: Florance Don't Bring a Knife to a Gun Fight   Key Takeaways   Homes.com vs. Zillow – Discussion of CoStar’s strategy to position Homes.com as a portal that accepts listings excluded by Zillow and what it means for brokers. Do Consumers Use Multiple Portals? – Rob explores whether buyers actually use more than one or two listing sites, and what that means for listing visibility. Government Involvement in Listing

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss the broader cultural trend of returning to physical, human-centered experiences amid rapid advances in technology and AI. They explore topics ranging from Compass’s decision to print physical listing books to the rise of tabletop gaming, and examine whether real estate’s resistance to full automation is part of a wider pushback against digital efficiency.   Key Takeaways   Printed Listing Books – Compass’s return to printed materials prompts a discussion about whether real estate is experiencing a retro shift. AI in Real Estate – Speculation on how AI could replace or supplement agents, and whether efficiency should be the ultimate goal in real estate transactions. Cultural Nostalgia and Physical Experiences – The potential link between societal burnout from digital life and renewed interest in human interaction and analog tools. Efficiency vs. Connection – Ongoing tension in the industry between embracing high-efficiency tech and preserving

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg explore the evolving definition of an “open market” in real estate. They discuss how consumer expectations, technology shifts, and the dominance of platforms like Zillow are reshaping what it means for a listing to be considered publicly available. The conversation also covers the historical role of the MLS, comparisons to other industries, and whether the industry should rethink its terminology to focus on “fair marketplaces” instead of “open marketplaces.” Key Takeaways   Definition of Open Market – Rob and Greg discuss the historical and modern interpretations of what constitutes an open market for real estate listings. MLS vs. Portals – Analysis of how MLS participation historically defined an open market and how that has shifted with the rise of Zillow and other portals. Consumer Behavior and Technology – Exploration of how changes in consumer behavior and technology have influenced the industry’s definition of market openness. Fair Market vs. O

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg examine how changes to MLS rules, especially around delayed marketing and the Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP), are impacting portals, broker strategies, vendors, and the broader real estate ecosystem. They also explore the implications of the Rocket-Redfin merger, challenges for MLS public-facing websites, and what the new data policy landscape means for technology providers.   Key Takeaways • Portal Impact of CCP Changes – Rob and Greg analyze how platforms like Zillow, Redfin, Realtor.com, and Homes.com are adapting to rule changes. • Delayed Marketing and Public Portals – Discussion of how CCP affects MLS public-facing websites, particularly HAR and UtahRealEstate.com. • Vendor Challenges with VOW Feeds – Vendors may need to shift from IDX to VOW feeds, which are more costly and complex to implement. • Rocket-Redfin Merger – Examination of how Rocket’s acquisition of Redfin could reshape brokerage models and mortgage integration. • Enforcement Variability

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg react to Zillow’s announcement that listings violating the Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP) will no longer be allowed on its platform. They discuss how this move could impact private exclusives, delayed marketing strategies, and the role of major brokerages like Compass and eXp. They also explore how this policy could affect MLS governance and whether Zillow’s position signals a shift in industry power. Key Takeaways Zillow’s CCP Policy Enforcement – Listings that violate CCP by being publicly marketed before entering the MLS will be banned from Zillow. Impact on Compass’s Strategy – The change could limit Compass’s three-phase marketing model and influence future iterations. eXp’s Public Support – Zillow’s announcement included backing from eXp, raising questions about why other brokerages didn’t join. MLS Power and Governance – Discussion on how Zillow’s move challenges the authority of MLSs that have their own coming soon policies. Consumer Impact

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg analyze the latest developments in the Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP) and its impact on brokerages, MLSs, and the industry at large. They also discuss how exclusive inventory strategies are reshaping competition, the DOJ’s scrutiny of MLS policies, and what these shifts could mean for agents and consumers moving forward.   Key Takeaways • Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP) Developments – Updates on how MLSs and brokerages are adjusting to changes in CCP and what’s next. • Exclusive Inventory Strategies – How brokerages are leveraging private listings to gain a competitive edge. • DOJ’s Focus on MLS Rules – The Department of Justice’s position on CCP and how it could impact industry regulations. • Brokerage Competition and Market Power – The role of large firms in shaping listing practices and potential consequences for smaller brokers. • Future of the Real Estate Marketplace – What shifts in policy and competition could mean for agents, buyers, and sellers. Wat

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg break down the big news about the Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP) and what its potential changes could mean for the future of real estate. They discuss the DOJ’s ongoing investigation into NAR, the evolving landscape of MLS policies, and how major brokerages are responding. With key shifts on the horizon, they explore what these developments mean for agents, brokers, and the industry at large.   Key Takeaways • Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP) Under Fire – What the latest updates mean for listing practices and market transparency. • DOJ vs. NAR – Ongoing legal scrutiny and potential implications for how real estate operates. • MLS Policy Changes – How the rules around listing distribution may evolve and what it means for competition. • Brokerage Adaptation – How leading firms are adjusting to the shifting regulatory and policy landscape. • Industry Power Shifts – The role of leadership changes and legal actions in reshaping the real estate ecosystem.   Resource

**This podcast was recorded the Friday BEFORE the announcement from NAR on CCP** In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg dissect the latest drama surrounding NAR’s Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP), the DOJ’s stance on MLS rules, and the future of PropTech in a shifting real estate landscape. They analyze how recent DOJ statements are being interpreted (or misinterpreted), debate whether the MLS still holds power over large brokerages, and discuss the potential consequences of a fragmented listing system. Key Takeaways • DOJ’s Footnote Controversy: Did the DOJ “call out” misleading claims about CCP, or is the industry reading too much into a footnote? • The Power Struggle Over MLS Data: Rob argues large brokerages are taking control over listing distribution, while Greg questions whether MLSs still provide enough value to keep them in check. • The PropTech Dilemma: What happens to tools like CMAs, reverse prospecting, and analytics when listings become fragmented across private networks? • Compass’s

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg break down three major real estate bombshells—the rumored Compass acquisition of Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices (BHHS), the Redfin-Rocket merger, and the potential shake-up of NAR’s Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP). They discuss whether Compass is actually in talks with BHHS or if this is just Wall Street speculation, how Redfin and Rocket could disrupt the brokerage model, and why NAR might be making CCP optional to dodge legal liability.  Key Takeaways • Compass x BHHS Rumors: Wall Street Journal reported that Compass was acquiring BHHS—but BHHS CEO Gino Blefari strongly denied it. So what’s the truth? • The Redfin-Rocket Power Move: Why Rocket’s mortgage empire could turn Redfin into Zillow’s biggest competitor—and how Respa exemptions give them an edge. • NAR’s CCP Shake-Up: Is NAR making CCP optional just to shift legal liability onto MLSs? Rob and Greg debate whether this is NAR’s “race to irrelevance.” • Does Warren Buffett Want Out of Real Estate?: If

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg tackle three major industry shake-ups: Gary Keller selling a stake in Keller Williams, REX losing its lawsuit against NAR and Zillow, and the launch of a new NAR alternative, AREA, by Mauricio Umansky and Jason Haber. They debate what these moves mean for the future of real estate, the ongoing battle over commission structures, and whether the DOJ’s real target is the MLS monopoly. If you’re looking for sharp analysis with a side of sarcasm, this episode delivers.   Key Takeaways • Keller Williams Goes Private Equity: Gary Keller sells a stake to Stone Point Capital—what does this mean for KW’s future and private equity’s role in real estate? • The Death of REX?: REX loses its lawsuit against Zillow and NAR. Was this just a bad case, or is the DOJ preparing to take a bigger swing? • AREA’s New MLS Policy: Mauricio Umansky and Jason Haber’s new NAR alternative introduces a Clear Collaboration Policy—but is it just a repackaged CCP? • DOJ’s Real Endgame: Rob a

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg dive into the controversy surrounding dual agency, private networks, and the MLS’s role in protecting small brokers. They break down the industry’s long-standing acceptance of brokerage-level dual agency while questioning why teams are getting a pass. Plus, they debate whether Compass’s push to double-end deals is just standard brokerage strategy—or an attempt to reshape the industry. If you want unfiltered takes on where real estate is headed, this episode is for you.   Key Takeaways • Is Brokerage Dual Agency Bad? Rob argues that the industry has historically supported it—so why the sudden outrage? • The Compass Controversy: Greg and Rob discuss whether Compass is playing the same game as everyone else or trying to blow up the MLS for its own benefit. • The Team Dual Agency Dilemma: Should teams be held to a different standard? Rob questions why brokerages get a pass but teams don’t. • MLS Protection for Small Brokers: Rob suggests the MLS has always been

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg break down the latest in the ongoing battle over NAR’s three-way agreement and how Phoenix Realtors’ recent compromise with NAR might reshape the industry. They explore whether this is a true win for NAR or just the beginning of a major shift, debating the rise of the “Freedom Plan” and how it could spread across the country. With bold predictions, deep industry insights, and a fair amount of sarcasm, this episode is a must-listen for anyone keeping an eye on real estate governance.   Key Takeaways • Phoenix Realtors’ “Compromise”: Did they cave to NAR, or did they find a way to rewrite the rules on their own terms? • The Freedom Plan vs. Realtor Membership: How the rebranded “Non-Member MLS Access” could be the start of a larger movement. • Will Other Associations Follow?: If Phoenix can do it, why wouldn’t Scottsdale and other local associations jump on board? • State Associations’ Next Move: Will Arizona Realtors create their own version of the Freedom Pl

Overview In this special live episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg broadcast from the Virtual MLS Summit, where they tackle one of the biggest questions in real estate today: What does “cooperation” mean in a post-settlement world? They explore how the industry’s shift away from compensation impacts the role of MLSs, debate the long-standing relationship between brokerages and associations, and challenge whether MLSs should truly be considered “broker cooperatives.” This episode is packed with bold insights, historical context, and plenty of Rob vs. Greg fireworks.   Key Takeaways • The Evolution of Cooperation: With compensation no longer tied to MLS participation, what does cooperation actually mean now? • MLS Governance and Broker Control: If MLSs are broker cooperatives, why are associations still making the rules? • The Fiduciary Duty Dilemma: Can cooperation exist when agents owe full fiduciary duties to their clients? • The Government’s Potential Role: If the industry doesn’t self-regulate effec

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg dive into one of the most heated debates yet—was NAR’s fight for survival a necessary battle, or did it do more harm than good? They analyze the fallout from the settlement, discuss the rise of leaders like Michelle Harrington who are ditching corporate-speak for real talk, and debate whether NAR should have surrendered years ago to avoid the lawsuits entirely.   Key Takeaways • Michelle Harrington’s Blunt Truths: The First Team CEO calls the settlement “bulls***,” and Rob and Greg love her authenticity. • Corporate-Speak vs. Real Talk: Why real estate leaders should ditch the PR fluff and embrace straight-shooting communication. • The $2 Billion Club Controversy: Why independent brokerages feel abandoned and how the settlement exposed them to legal threats. • Should NAR Have Surrendered in 2018? Rob argues they could have avoided everything if they had just given in earlier. Greg pushes back. • Zombie Members or Hostages? Rob says NAR fought to protect dues