Macro N Cheese

Steve’s guests are Charles Derber and Yale Magrass, authors of Who Owns Democracy: The Real Deep State and the Struggle Over Class and Caste in America. The concept of the deep state has been employed by different political ideologies, most recently the right under Trump. But its existence is real, and its service to the ruling class can be traced back to the founding of the US. Among other ideas, Charles and Yale stress the distinction between shallow democracy and the real thing. From their book’s abstract: “Large corporations, Wall Street, and other sectors of the capitalist class outsource day-to-day governance to the mainstream political parties, which can compete vigorously and create a credible veneer of civil liberties and electoral democracy, disguising and legitimating the deep state. But it is a “shallow democracy,” since the deep state sets boundaries on policies and choices to serve itself. It also denies a universal franchise and obstructs the voting rights of people of color, the poor, and ot

When people reject the concept of degrowth are they suggesting society continue to allow capital to ravage the earth? Are they saying the countries of the global North should continue exploiting and extracting from the global South? Are they pushing for more growth? Steve’s guest, Erin Remblance is an Australian researcher and activist who was spurred into action six years ago when the IPCC released their special report on global warming of 1.5°C. Since then, Erin has been creating courses, events, and materials that address the crises and work toward solutions. Erin and Steve discuss degrowth, a planned reduction in energy and material throughput to maintain ecological balance. (Throughput, for those unfamiliar with the term, is defined as “the amount of material or items passing through a system or process.”) The episode goes into the systemic issues of capitalism, which increasingly commodifies all areas of our lives in its relentless pursuit of growth. “The gross national product does not allow for the

**Find a transcript of each week’s episode on our Substack, where we also offer links to resources discussed in the interview. Subscribe now at https://realprogressives.substack.com/ Daniel Conceição is back to discuss the social damage of rentier capitalism and the potential to address it through the insights of Modern Monetary Theory. Rentier capitalism derives profit from ownership and manipulation of assets rather than through productive activity. While industrial capitalism also creates inequality, rentier capitalism, or rent seeking, exacerbates the division.  State-controlled money creation could nullify some of the speculative advantage of rentiers by directly funding critical public services, such as housing and healthcare. It may not be the ultimate answer, but it’s worth looking at. Daniel and Steve discuss the importance of overcoming mainstream economic fallacies that serve the interests of the financial elite. Daniel Negreiros Conceição did his undergraduate studies

**Join us Tuesday evenings for Macro ‘n Chill, an informal gathering where we listen to and discuss this podcast. Register here for our September 10th session https://events.teams.microsoft.com/event/29d4cc27-0123-4885-aaa8-6ff95947498d@7d53fbd0-6b43-4143-9400-6b0b36a25e55 Steve’s guest is Nolan Higdon, an author and expert in media literacy. They discuss surveillance in education, which Higdon covers in his book, co-authored with Allison Butler, Surveillance Education: Navigating the Conspicuous Absence of Privacy in Schools.Surveillance capitalism, which emerged in the late 20th century, profits from datamining, largely without public awareness. Nolan emphasizes the increased intrusion into schools, particularly following changes to FERPA laws in 2012 allowing private tech companies to collect and use student data. The discussion highlights the false sense of security offered by the surveillance tools as well as the biases ingrained in AI used in education.The topic takes on special sign

Macro N Cheese brings you another twist. A couple of months ago, Steve appeared as a guest on 1Dime Radio in a two-part series that we’re now presenting as a single episode.  Tony has been on our podcast several times, now Steve is on his turf. The result is a productive meeting of the minds. He and Steve both view the world through a Marxist lens, and they both agree Marxists need MMT.   The discussion goes into the American Revolution as they consider the possibility of democracy in a modern capitalist system. They examine bourgeois control over politics and economics. They look at the limitations of capitalism in meeting society’s vital problems and talk about the devastating effects of privatization. They compare a UBI to a program of universal basic services and agree there’s no contest.   Tony runs the YouTube channel "1Dime" and the podcast 1Dime Radio. On his main channel, 1Dime does video essays and mini-documentaries tha

Let us never become immune to shock and outrage over the US government’s failure to guarantee its citizens a safe clean water supply. We must be outraged by the power that private players hold over us all with the blessings and collusion of officials whose titles suggest they should protect us. Investigative journalist Jordan Chariton has been reporting on the Flint water crisis for nearly a decade. His newly published book, We the Poisoned, examines how systemic governmental failures, abetted by municipal, state, and federal authorities, and complicit media, combined to allow the Flint catastrophe. Jordan talks to Steve about the devastating effects of neoliberal privatization schemes, driven by financial incentives and aided by powerful interests including Wall Street, which resulted in the use of untreated water from the polluted Flint River in a city already suffering from decades of economic decline. Privatization transformed public utilities into profit-driven entities, neglecting critical safety and q

The 2024 fictional film “Civil War” shows an America that has been fractured into armed factions. It’s not the dystopian fantasy that interests us here, however, it’s the collapse of the currency! In the movie, the US dollar has lost its value, like the fate of Confederate money after the (real) US Civil War. With his imagination piqued by the film, Steve asked Brett Scott, author and monetary theorist, to help us think about the dynamics of commerce, currency, and systemic forces in times of societal collapse and global capitalism. Brett and Steve look at historical cases like Zimbabwe's hyperinflation and Ireland's banking strike. They discuss barter systems, mutual credit, dollarization, and informal credits. The conversation delves into broader themes of pre- and post-capitalist markets, moral logics within economies, and the systemic nature of global capitalism. Highlighting the inadequacy of simplistic elite-blaming narratives, they advocate for understanding economic interdependence and discuss Mode

“I was still a true believer, but doubts were starting to creep in at a certain point when you saw a large segment of our coalition cheering the brutal death of Rachel Corrie under a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer. And then, you know, a month later, cheering for the death of Tom Hurndall who was killed protecting a Palestinian child from Israeli snipers and was shot in the head by an expert marksman looking through a scope.” Jonathan Kadmon is on the leadership team of Real Progressives and writes for the website. He also helps put out this podcast. Today, however, he is talking to Steve about his vast knowledge of Zionism, Palestine, and US support for Israel. Jonathan was raised in a Republican household and became a passionate supporter of Israel during his college years, when he was given training and taken on trips by powerful players in the Israel lobby. After growing up a Jew in the South, he now became part of a powerful community and embraced it with pride. He talks of his experiences and describes his i

In June, Real Progressives hosted a webinar with Carlos García Hernández on his book, Fiat Socialism: Achieving the Goals of Socialism Through Modern Monetary Theory. After hearing his Macro N Cheese interview last year, we wanted to open the door for our volunteers to ask questions and engage with Carlos on this topic. He is an important voice applying the insights of MMT to socialist theory. “‘Fiat socialism’ is my name for an open and prosperous society ruled by the principles of the Modern Monetary Theory and functional finance.” In talking about his book, Carlos laid out the goals of fiat socialism: Full employment Full and prudent use of material resources The guarantee of the five essentials to every citizen: food, housing, clothing, health services, and education Social security at all major exposed points in the social structure (eg, old age, sickness, accident, temporary unemployment, and childbearing) Labor standards, to be assured by labor unions This episode includes his presentation followed b

According to Mischa Geracoulis, of Project Censored, media is a public good and journalism is a public service. “Being able to access information, being able to join in, participate in the free flow of information, to have an opinion, to formulate a stance –that is actually considered a human right, under Article 19 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights.” It only follows that censorship is a violation of human rights. Project Censored defines censorship more broadly than a government’s control over the media. It is the suppression of information, whether purposefully or not, by any method – (including) bias, omission, underreporting, or even self-censorship by the reporter or publisher. Steve and Mischa discuss the urgency of getting the public to understand the genocide in Gaza, and crucial for Americans to see their government’s role in it. They look at the challenges faced by independent press, as well as special problems of news deserts. They also talk about the need for media literacy while much of the

Steve’s guest this week is Dirk Ehnts, a lecturer and authorwho specializes in modern monetary theory (MMT). They discuss Dirk's new book,"A Simple Guide to the Monetary System," which aims to simplify theoften complex concepts of MMT. They discuss the significance of the Copernican turn to MMT,which refers to the shift in perspective that occurred during the COVID-19pandemic. Dirk explains that the massive increase in government spending andthe lack of inflationary effects challenged conventional economic theories thathad previously dismissed MMT. Dirk explains the theory behind inflation targeting and howit has failed to deliver on its promises of price stability and fullemployment. He also highlights the role of trade policy and income inequalityin shaping economic outcomes, pointing out that these factors are oftenoverlooked in favor of focusing solely on interest rates and inflation.The conversation shifts to the rise of the BRICScountries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) and the geopolit

When corporations are guilty of poisoning the population, it is newsworthy. When state and local governments are complicit, it is newsworthy.  Yet the US media refuses to cover some of the most scandalous and tragic stories of our time, despite overwhelming evidence of corporate and government culpability.Jordan Chariton, CEO of Status Coup, has many years of experience working for both mainstream and independent news organizations. He and Steve discuss the media’s role in perpetuating the distorted narrative. If they’re not ignoring the facts, they’re misrepresenting them.  Jordan talks about his continuing coverage of the Flint water crisis and the East Palestine train derailment. He describes the case of Graphic Packaging International in Kalamazoo, Michigan, where a paper mill has been releasing deadly gases into a poor black community for decades. Despite complaints and environmental violations, the plant has not been shut down.He finds himself waging war on two fronts; after digging up th

**On Tuesday evening we’re gathering for a listening party and discussion of this episode of the podcast. Get the Zoom link here https://realprogressives.org/event/macro-n-chill-284/  If anyone still thinks adopting the Euro was a good idea, this episode should set you straight. Writer and journalist Thomas Fazi joins Steve to talk about the critical issues surrounding the European project, beginning with elite reaction to the recent election of Marine Le Pen in France, which Thomas calls a script that, as an Italian, he has seen play out many times: “And that is one where as soon as a “populist” or “anti-establishment” government comes into power, or has a good chance of coming to power, as Le Pen does now ... then the kind of democracy-proofing mechanisms of the European Union, and of the Euro, kick into action.” Markets begin selling off the bonds of the country in question, in this case France, because they’re said to be spooked by the election results. The mainstre

** For a full transcript of this and every episode of the podcast, go to our website, where you will also find an “Extras” section with information and links to resources discussed in the episode. realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/  At Macro N Cheese we’ve been having an ongoing conversation about the need for radical change in the labor movement and the rise of class struggle unionism.  Traven Leyshon is president of the Green Mountain Central Labour Council and part of the leadership team of the Vermont State Labour Council. Traven, who has over five decades of labor organizing experience, talks to Steve about the pushback from national labor institutions against Vermont's newly elected progressive leadership and what it represents for the movement. The episode delves into the historical context of labor shrinkage and addresses the practical challenges of organizing in a neoliberal economy dominated by corporate money. He emphasizes the need for a participatory democracy w

What happens to a nation when its leaders get in bed with the IMF? In this episode, Steve and his guest Daniel Kostzer look at the case of Argentina under President Javier Milei. Daniel is the Chief Economist of the International Trade Union Confederation. They discuss the recent legislative wins by Milei's government, which have sparked mass protests and civil unrest in the country. The reform bill passed by the Argentine Senate includes sweeping austerity measures, privatization, and labor rights cuts. The conversation delves into the factors contributing to the high inflation rate in Argentina, including the country's debt with the IMF, the impact of the pandemic, and external conditions such as the Ukraine-Russian war and drought. Daniel explains that Milei's approach to the economy is characterized by a belief in dollarization. They also discuss the role of the IMF in Argentina and its pro-market, pro-capitalist ideology. They talk about the historical pattern of accumulation in the countr

Dan Kovalik, author and human rights lawyer, joins Steve to talk about his new book, The Case for Palestine: Why it Matters and Why You Should Care. The conversation goes into the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the concept of settler colonialism, and the current situation in Gaza.They criticize the US government's support for Israel and the lack of accountability for the ongoing genocide. They blame the corporate media for not adequately informing the public about these issues, allowing for a privileged perspective that ignores the suffering.  They touch on the role of social media in raising awareness of the atrocities, discuss the need for the American public to unify around principles of peace & to call out the US for war crimes and also talk about the attempts to silence criticism of genocide by labeling it as anti-Semitic or terrorist sympathizing.Dan Kovalik is a labor and human rights lawyer and peace activist. He is the author of the recently releas

In this episode, Steve has a conversation with Tschäff (pronounced “Jeff”) Reisberg, the secretary of the Charlotte Metrolina Labor Council and a professional flight attendant, about the vital role of the labor movement through the lens of MMT.  They look at the intersection of movement building and labor's role, emphasizing that real economic advocacy should lead to tangible change. Steve contrasts this to the naivety of relying solely on voting within a captured oligarchic system.  They discuss historical and current labor struggles, touching on the need for transforming unions from business unionism to class struggle-oriented unions. Tschäff shares insights on the positive outcomes of recent labor actions which have revitalized union activity. They also talk about the importance of a job guarantee and consider how unions might engage with broader social movements, emphasizing solidarity and the power of labor to enact change by shutting down production. Tschäff Reisberg is not

**Each episode of Macro N Cheese has an “Extras” section filled with information and links to resources related to topics touched on in the interview. Go to https://realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/ where you will also find a full transcript of the episode. Steve Grumbine’s guest is Steve Hall, a Professor Emeritus of Criminology who has published in the fields of criminology, sociology, anthropology, history, economic history, political theory and philosophy. The discussion covers a range of political and economic issues, including class consciousness and unity among the working class in the US and Europe. They discuss the historical fear and suspicion of the working class by the political and economic elites. They talk about the impact of identity politics and the need for unity among the working class. They also touch on the influence of neoliberalism and the weaponization of identity struggles.  They highlight the disconnect between what is presented in the news and the need

Bryce Greene was recently arrested during campus protests in support of Palestine. Steve, who believes ignoring the slaughter in Gaza is akin to ignoring the holocaust, invited him to describe his experience and insights into the student encampments and the anti-Zionist movement in the US. Bryce is a writer and organizer currently working towards his PhD in Informatics. His work focuses on media and geopolitical analysis. He emphasizes the importance of dismantling the myths and narratives surrounding American support for Israel and the oppression of Palestinians. He believes that studying Palestine brings understanding of the broader forces and processes that define American Empire. He goes into the impact of social media and alternative platforms in challenging the traditional narratives and gatekeepers that shape the public’s understanding. Or misunderstanding.  They talk about the brutality of the Israeli state, including land grabs, settlements, and military violence against Pale

**On Tuesday evening we’re holding a listening party and informal discussion of this episode. Join us for Macro ‘n Chill. Register here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZArcuqsqD0tH92MxVmJIqj4PHtojQGgFl2l Grassroots political organizer Jay Ponti talks with Steve about his book, "Be the Revolution: How Occupy Wall Street and the Bernie Sanders Movement Reshaped American Politics." Jay maintains that there’s a vibrant network of people doing great work that isn’t covered by corporate media.  “Politicians are not heroes who can save us. We have to save ourselves. That's what the Occupy Wall Street movement taught me. We can't rely on someone else to make the changes we want to see. We have to get organized, we have to get active, and we have to fight for our own rights.” Jay shares his experiences in Occupy Wall Street and the motivations behind it. He describes how the movement emerged as a response to the 2008 financial crisis and the fraudulent practices of financial in