Very Bad Therapy

Ben and Carrie have a new podcast! It’s called Learn Psychotherapy, and we’re inviting you to listen and practice along to develop your therapy skills.   Learn Psychotherapy: Website / YouTube / Apple Podcasts / Spotify   Skill Criteria for Soliciting Client Feedback: Begin with a short response, reflection, or validating comment. Ask the client for feedback about some aspect of therapy that is related to the subject of the client statement.   Thanks for joining us to develop your therapy skills just a little bit beyond where they were yesterday. Visit Sentio University to download the client statements, sample responses, and skill criteria for this episode. To start the practice section, skip ahead to 26:42.   Instructions: We encourage you to learn by trying this skill yourself. Pause the episode after each client statement and try to improvise a response that meets the skill criteria and feels authentic to you. Have fun, and happy learning!

We’re long overdue for a good old-fashioned Q&A episode. You’ve sent in your questions, and we’re here to opine about everything from the importance of therapists getting their own therapy to the curious reluctance of the mental health field to embrace social psychology. Plus, we begrudgingly discuss the latest TikTok therapist drama to make a point about when it might be better to actually reject client preferences in session…or something like that. Social media is the worst.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community. Today’s episode is sponsored by courtmandatedtraining.com.   Join our charity drive! We are matching up to $6,000 of your donations to the world’s most effective charities. To contribute, visit GiveWell.org and use the fundraising code VBT.   Introduction: 0:00 – 13:10 Part One: 13:10 – 1:18:43   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story

What happens when a therapist and client have two very different conversational styles? Therapists can try to build rapport in many ways, which unfortunately is reflected in our guest Ben’s experience of being given terrible advice mislabeled as psychoeducation. Whether a client is talkative or reserved, one thing is for sure: randomly praising Donald Trump as a paragon of confidence is curious at best.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community. Today’s episode is sponsored by courtmandatedtraining.com and The Organized Therapist – Social Media for Therapists.   Join our charity drive! We are matching up to $6,000 of your donations to the world’s most effective charities. To contribute, visit GiveWell.org and use the fundraising code VBT.   Introduction: 0:00 – 9:31 Part One: 9:31 – 39:55 Part Two: 39:55 – 1:15:01   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Episode 73

Dr. Robin Hanson is an associate professor of economics at George Mason University and the coauthor of The Elephant in the Brain: Hidden Motives in Everyday Life. He joins us along with guest host Dr. Alex Williams to explore what clients are subconsciously signaling when they seek therapy – and what therapists are signaling to others when they enter the field. Plus, why is feedback-informed treatment similar to paying a friend $100 for a home-cooked meal?   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 4:54 Part One: 4:54 – 1:18:27   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Robin Hanson: Contact / Twitter Alex Williams: Contact / Twitter The Elephant in the Brain: Hidden Motives in Everyday Life

When does somebody officially become a client of therapy? And what happens if, before that distinction is made, crises occur and the therapeutic relationship unravels? Our guest Neith shares her experience navigating this scenario, and Dr. Ben Caldwell explains why little of this is clear cut, but some of it is clearly bad. Plus, we introduce a new segment: Is It Bad Therapy?   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community. Today’s episode is sponsored by The Organized Therapist – Social Media for Therapists.   Introduction: 0:00 – 7:16 Part One: 7:16 – 44:14 Part Two: 44:14 – 1:25:45 Part Three: 1:25:45 – 1:27:52   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to Strays Hope for Life Rescue Burbank Public Library SimplePractice Learning Ben Caldwell Labs Psychotherapy Notes Duty to the Patient – When Does it Begin? When Does Therapy Begin? In Case of Emergency: The Pro

On Very Bad Therapy, we seek to understand what it’s like for clients to have bad therapeutic experiences. Should we focus more on the therapists’ side of the story? Dr. Patrick Wiita joins us to continue our conversation from the end of episode #72 to discuss some very interesting questions: Are we doing a disservice to our listeners by not considering the “bad” therapists’ point of view? What are we suggesting by being unquestionably validating of our guests’ stories? Is it even possible to have this podcast if we challenge our guests’ perspectives? Plus, Carrie finds deep meaning in a breakfast sandwich.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 3:57 Part One: 3:57 – 52:28   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story

Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) is considered the front-line treatment for borderline personality disorder. What exactly is DBT, and why is it nothing like the invalidating experience that Amy describes in today’s episode? To accept and change the reality of bad DBT, we speak with Fred Kutnick, LMSW about the propositions of good DBT.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community. Today’s episode is sponsored by The Organized Therapist – Social Media for Therapists.   Introduction: 0:00 – 7:17 Part One: 7:17 – 44:17 Part Two: 44:17 – 1:23:33 Part Three: 1:23:33 – 1:26:01   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to Dallas Dog – Rescue. Rehab. Reform. Fred Kutnick, LMSW: Website / Email Persuasiveness: An underappreciated characteristic of effective therapists. Expanding Systems Thinking: Incorporating Tools from Medical Sociology into MFT Education and Research

Thomas Lennon is an acclaimed actor and screenwriter, best-selling novelist, and most importantly, Carrie’s long-time friend. We break from our usual format to chat with Tom about his good experiences in therapy, the impact of fame on mental health, and Metallica getting family counseling together. This was a fun conversation – maybe next time we can talk with Paul Rudd!   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 5:42 Part One: 5:42 – 48:19   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Thomas Lennon: Twitter / Instagram / Amazon

Carrie and Ben are joined by Dr. Will Dobud to discuss two burning questions: is good therapy just the absence of bad therapy, and should we ban the use of cognitive behavioral therapy? We explore the importance of teaching people to think about psychotherapy models differently, the appeal of bringing therapy back to its pragmatist roots, and what the biased origins of personality tests can teach us about taking precautions when using theories of pathology. Plus, what can we learn from the wonderful history of smoke enemas?   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 5:43 Part One: 5:43 – 1:08:24   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Adventure Therapy Collective Podcast Which Theoretical Orientation Should You Choose? MFT California The Problem With Personality Testing

Beth is a self-described therapy failure expert. She joins us for the whole episode (and more!) as we discuss her personal bad therapy experiences, what therapists think of clients who disclose their stories of bad therapy, why therapists often struggle to provide specialized services, and the fact that some therapists simply aren’t good at making their clients feel understood.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 7:53 Part One: 7:53 – 53:02 Part Two: 53:02 – 1:41:23 Part Three: 1:41:23 – 1:44:32   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to METAvivor People Who’ve Been To Therapy Are Sharing What They Wish They Knew Before Starting, And It’s Sparking An Important Conversation

A therapist’s job is to help their clients. But what does “help” mean when a client has been diagnosed with an incurable disease? In this episode, Cassie shares her story of seeking emotional support for her diagnosis of metastatic breast cancer only to receive unhelpful fixes instead. Plus, Jill Johnson-Young returns to talk about supporting clients who are experiencing the grief of having to say goodbye.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 6:37 Part One: 6:37 – 36:43 Part Two: 36:43 – 1:11:28 Part Three: 1:11:28 – 1:17:01   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to CaringBridge and Triple Negative Breast Cancer Foundation Therapist-level moderation of within- and between-therapist process-outcome associations. Research examines the role of psychotherapists in treatment effectiveness Jill Johnson-Young’s Website

Dual relationships can be perfectly fine in therapy. But imagine if your therapist was also working with your good friend… and that friend’s girlfriend… and the therapist hired your friend to be her dog walker… and everyone’s private information was shared in session with no concern for confidentiality. That’s the first ten minutes of Anna’s story, and it gets worse from there. So, so much worse.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 2:34 Part One: 2:34 – 55:03 Part Two: 55:03 – 1:10:55   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to the National Association for Children of Alcoholics (Nacoa)

What does it mean if a therapist suddenly changes their behavior? In this episode, Katie shares her experiences with two therapists who made significant adjustments and left her (and Ben and Carrie) confused about what happened. Plus, Dr. Ben Caldwell returns with fantastic metaphors about ethical gray areas and how therapists can adjust their boundaries and clinical style in a compassionate way.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 5:43 Part One: 5:43 – 42:32 Part Two: 42:32 – 1:25:40 Part Three: 1:25:40 – 1:30:33   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to Alzheimer’s Association Embracing Our Core Competencies: How Would It Change the Practice of Therapy? Sentio Institute Undergraduate Internship (Note: For California residents only) A User’s Guide to the 7 Criteria for ‘Good Therapy’ Ben Caldwell Labs SimplePractice Learnin

Post-Traumatic Stress Demonology   The cause of psychological distress is often complex and unknowable. There are many helpful theories to explain depression, anxiety, and trauma, but in this episode, Maria shares her bewildering experience with a therapist who had some less conventional ideas. This story features many different examples of bad therapy with a freaking exorcism included as an iatrogenic exclamation point.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 5:54 Part One: 5:54 – 44:12 Part Two: 44:12 – 1:12:04   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to The Trevor Project EMDR: Taking a Closer Look

Lots of therapists describe themselves as “trauma-informed.” Very few fail to live up to that title as inexplicably as what we hear in this episode, as Sarah shares her unfortunate therapy experience following a sexual assault. We also talk with Dr. Chelsea Kilimnik to learn more about how therapists can actually be trauma-informed when supporting survivors of sexual trauma.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 7:03 Part One: 7:03 – 39:17 Part Two: 39:17 – 1:15:32 Part Three: 1:15:32 – 1:19:32   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to Lifeline Australia Dr. Chelsea Kilimnik: Email / CU / Practice Some Psychological Interventions Are More Harmful Than Helpful

Therapists have a lot of power. This episode is about a therapist who leveraged that power to abuse his clients.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 3:40 Part One: 3:40 – 1:03:16 Part Two: 1:03:16 – 1:18:18   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to SPCA International Episode 82 – Predatory Therapists (with Dr. Diane Gehart) Therapy Exploitation Link Line (TELL)

Can wearing a cross be considered a type of bad therapy? This episode features a conversation with Johannah Song, LPC about the positive and negative ways therapists of faith can impact treatment by disclosing their religion. Plus, we talk about the right balance between expertise and curiosity, and why seeking consultation from a specialist is like baking a quiche.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 9:15 Part One: 9:15 – 55:46 Part Two: 55:46 – 1:29:38   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to Traffick911 Intellection Consulting Always chatting in 55 minute chunks (Reddit) The Thinking Atheist Podcast

This episode’s interview with Sara is about two therapists – one who was too friendly, and another who wasn’t friendly enough. What should therapists consider before using risky interventions such as guilt, self-disclosure, or icy behavior? We try to answer these questions and more as we go back down the rabbit hole of using service-dominant logic to make therapy more effective.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 9:23 Part One: 9:23 – 47:16 Part Two: 47:16 – 1:25:00   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to NAMI Maryland I found the latest episode of “Very Bad Therapy” to be pretty offensive and absurd and I’m curious to hear other’s thoughts on it. (Reddit)

Who should we talk to next about how to break the decades-long plateau of client outcomes in psychotherapy? Short on ideas, we take it upon ourselves to try and crack the 45-year-old riddle about how to make therapy more effective. Ben has another existential crisis, Carrie converts to the religion of customer service, and we (eventually!) explore why the path to better outcomes might go directly through Starbucks and the hospitality industry. We want to hear your feedback on this one!   VBT in Focus is a series of sporadic episodes in which Carrie and Ben have the privilege of chatting with their favorite thinkers in the field of psychotherapy. Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Part One: 0:00 – 1:01:28 Part Two: 1:01:28 – 1:50:27   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Daniel Kahneman / Seth Godin Tyler Black’s Twitter Thread How To Know If You’re An Int

Jill Johnson-Young is an expert in the areas of dying, death, and grief. She also has the personal experiences that come with having been widowed twice, including stories of the bad grief therapy that followed. In this episode, Jill shares what therapists and clients should know about working with grief and all the reasons why the conventional wisdom about grief therapy is often counterproductive.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to regular bonus episodes, check out the Very Bad Therapy Patreon community.   Introduction: 0:00 – 10:59 Part One: 10:59 – 1:14:34 Part Two: 1:14:34 – 1:25:50   Very Bad Therapy: Website / Facebook / Bookshelf / Tell Us Your Story   Show Notes: Donate to Make-A-Wish Jill Johnson-Young’s Website The Jessica Simulation: Love and loss in the age of A.I. An Investigation of Self-Assessment Bias in Mental Health Providers The Center for Complicated Grief Private Practice Grief Facebook Group