Beyond Prisons

Hosts Kim Wilson and Brian Sonenstein discuss Operation PUSH: a nonviolent prison labor strike and boycott in Florida that began on Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Brian talks about what he's learned from reporting on the action and the intense retaliation by state prison official against suspected organizers. We go over the goals and demands of Operation PUSH and how prison officials are denying the strike is even happening. We talk about what has happened to Kevin "Rashid" Johnson, a political prisoner in Florida who was thrown in a cold cell without a working toilet for writing an article about the action, and how the public rallied behind him to have him moved to a different cell. We also examine this action's intersection with climate change and the environment, as well as how Operation PUSH fits in to the larger movement against prison slavery that has experienced a resurgence in the last two years. Finally, Kim and Brian have a broad discussion of the dynamics of prison rebellions and how prison systems s

In Episode 19 of Beyond Prisons, hosts Brian Sonenstein and Kim Wilson catch up with activist, writer, and educator Mariame Kaba. Mariame shares her experiences advocating on behalf of Bresha Meadows, a teenage girl who killed her abusive father and was detained while facing the possibility of trial as an adult and a lifetime of incarceration. She recount's Bresha's story and explains how activists worked to make sure the family's needs were met and help them navigate the collateral consequences of detention, including an enormous financial burden and the shame and stigma that makes people internalize their struggle. Mariame explains how children who are abused face limited options and harsh punishment for trying to escape their abusers and even harsher punishment for defending themselves. She talks about the racialized aspect of this arrangement, and how black children are dehumanized and not seen as children but as criminals in training. She discusses the work that Survived and Punished put into assembling

Professor Alex S. Vitale joins the Beyond Prisons podcast to discuss his book, "The End Of Policing," which provides a historical analysis of law enforcement and police reform in the United States and argues for alternatives. Vitale tells us about how he came to write this book and walks us through the early history of police in the United States. He discusses the popular myths surrounding policing, underscoring their conflicts with the roles police have played as managers of inequality from colonialism, to the emergence of a mass industrial working class, to slavery. Vitale discusses the litany of problems inherent to the most popular police reforms touted by liberals in recent decades. He discusses how these reforms fall short and why they distract and fail to address root causes. He also talks about how these reform approaches lack a critical analysis of the legal frameworks police use and how the strategy of professionalizing police forces has been more about restoring public confidence than addressing is

Dr. Breea Willingham joins the Beyond Prisons podcast to discuss her prison research, her writing workshops with incarcerated women, and her experiences as someone with family directly impacted by the system. Dr. Willingham talks about how her experiences inform her work despite the traditional resistance of the academy to approaches that are not considered "objective"—even if it is highly relevant to the research. We talk about the farce of objectivity in both academia and journalism, and the need to put forward the perspective of people directly impacted by a particular subject. We also examine Dr. Willingham's work regarding writing programs for incarcerated women. She talks about her research, in which educated, white, middle and upper-middle class women instructors were forced to negotiate their race and class privilege in their workshops, and their reactions upon finding that their students were human beings, too. We also touch on how some activism and scholarship approaches incarceration voyeuristicall

Dr. Walter Greason joins the podcast to discuss his Racial Violence Syllabus, which attracted worldwide attention following the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Dr. Greason's syllabus was translated into seven languages and reached millions of people, driving the public debate surrounding the removal of Confederate memorials across the United States. Dr. Greason tells us what motivated him to share the syllabus as well as his experiences in the early 2000's teaching it in a class on the legacy of white terrorism. He walks us through some of the history of racial violence chronicled in the syllabus, including incidents in Cincinnati in 1829 and Philadelphia in 1834. He feels these particular examples are important because they show white supremacy is a national phenomenon and not restricted to the American south. We also discuss how Black communities have organized against acts of racial violence and in self defense. We talk about how police brutality and other forms of state violencerepla

Artist, writer, and organizer Devyn Springer joins the Beyond Prisons podcast for a special two-part episode. In part two, Devyn speaks with hosts Kim Wilson and Brian Sonenstein about hip hop scholarship and pedagogy as liberatory approaches to education. We also discuss his photography, writing, and poetry. Devyn explains his scholarship focuses on hip hop as a means of resistance. He talks about how, as one of most influential art forms of the past century, hip hop has always been about race, class, and gender, and that it tells stories and histories. He discusses the importance of having students see themselves in the material he teaches, explaining how the work of Walter Rodney has influenced his own practice. We also discuss Devyn's photography and writing, including a piece he wrote about the Pulse Nightclub shooting. He sees his art as a way to combat the normalization of oppression and  the idea that oppression is an essential part of human existence and human nature. We explore a piece Devyn wrote

Artist, writer, and organizer Devyn Springer joins the Beyond Prisons podcast for a special two-part episode. In part one, Devyn speaks with hosts Kim Wilson and Brian Sonenstein about his work with mental health response networks in Atlanta. Through Rise UP, Black Lives Matter, and other groups, Devyn has worked to confront mental health emergencies through deescalation and by building relationships in the community. We discuss how the presence of police, and threat of violence that accompanies them, exacerbates manic episodes. We also talk about the dangers of making police the first responders in times of crisis, as well as the defunding and dissolution of mental health services in the community, which have shifted to prisons and jails. We talk about how these facilities do not and cannot provide an adequate therapeutic environment, and how situating treatment in the justice system has encouraged a defensive posture, in which we are dealing with crises more than providing ongoing support and treatment befo

Journalist Victoria Law joins the Beyond Prisons podcast to discuss her work with imprisoned women and her book, "Resistance Behind Bars: The Struggles Of Incarcerated Women." Law talks about how and why she wrote the book, which centers women’s struggles against incarceration and describes women’s resistance and organizing in prison. From this perspective, she also discusses the challenges and importance of compiling testimony from women on the inside, as well as the risks women have to take to speak out. She gives examples of the different kinds of resistance women engage in, and how their struggles to obtain education and access to programming and treatment are often overlooked examples of resisting the conditions of their confinement. We also discuss how criminal justice journalism traditionally relies on narratives provided by law enforcement and how incarcerated women are often perceived as untrustworthy. Law provides insight on the history of women's imprisonment and explains how reform has evolved sys

Beyond Prisons is on a brief hiatus until the end of August, when we'll return with a great episode featuring journalist Victoria Law. But before we go, we wanted to share our conversation with members of Jailhouse Lawyers Speak ahead of the historic Millions For Prisoners Human Rights March in Washington, DC on August 19. Jailhouse Lawyers Speak is a national collective of incarcerated people who fight for human rights by providing other incarcerated people with access to legal education, resources, and assistance. They inform people of their human rights under the United Nations charter and provide guidance on prison policies and lawsuits. Their advocacy work often makes them targets for retaliation and repression from corrections officers within prisons, which is why they chose to remain anonymous for our conversation. In general, jailhouse lawyers provide support primarily to poor incarcerated people and their families who cannot afford proper legal representation. They are largely incarcerated people who

On episode 10 of Beyond Prisons, we talk about Thomas Gordon, who is incarcerated at James T. Vaughn Correctional Center, a state prison in Delaware. Vaughn was the site of what has been called the Vaughn Rebellion, an uprising last February in response to horrendous living conditions that was met with brutal repression by corrections officers. Thomas wrote an open letter after the rebellion, which described their demands for human rights, including a proper diet, an adequate grievance process, and access to programs and education. Thomas's friend Emily Abendroth joins hosts Brian Sonenstein and Kim Wilson to talk about her friendship with Thomas, the open letter, and what she's learned from their correspondence. We discuss the risks and dangers Thomas faces in doing this work, the response from state officials and the media to the rebellion, and how officials have sought to increase their power in the aftermath by blaming staffing and security issues instead of addressing the root causes outlined by those in

Dan Berger joins Brian Sonenstein and Kim Wilson for episode 9 of Beyond Prisons to discuss his book, "Captive Nation: Black Prison Organizing in the Civil Rights Era." We begin the conversation by looking at whose voices are heard in conversations on mass incarceration and the importance of telling the history of this struggle from the vantage point of incarcerated people. Dan explains that although jails and courtrooms have been critical battlegrounds for Black people's human rights movements throughout American history, the influence of Black prison organizing is often glossed over, despite its central role in struggles from emancipation to the 1960's era civil rights movement and beyond. We discuss the increasing use of prisons as props in mainstream culture, where the focus is placed on the phenomenon of mass incarceration instead of the problem that is prison. We also talk about the erasure of Black political prisoners, who have their revolutionary ideas stolen from them by white American and European i

In episode 8 of Beyond Prisons, we have a wide-ranging conversation on the subjects of prison labor and slavery. First, we hear more from Bennu Hannibal Ra-Sun, an incarcerated member of the Free Alabama Movement, and a member of Jailhouse Lawyers Speak, a group of incarcerated human rights advocates and prison abolitionists, on the connection between slavery and the 13th amendment, and how society justifies the exploitation of prisoners through academia. We are then joined by Jared Ware, our producer and a fellow abolitionist. Jay worked with the Incarcerated Workers Organizing Committee (IWOC) during the nationwide prison strikes against slavery. He helped manage their Twitter account, which was a crucial source of information as the strike unfolded. The three of us talk about prison jobs programs, organizing against prison slavery, abolishing the 13th Amendment, and the upcoming Millions for Prisoners Human Rights March in Washington, D.C. We also attempt to complicate the discussion of prison labor by con

In episode 7 of Beyond Prisons, Brian and Kim are joined by Krystal Rountree, founder of iamWE and national organizer of the upcoming Millions for Prisoners Human Rights March on August 19 in Washington, D.C. Krystal discusses the hard work being done to organize the march and their goal to end prison slavery by removing the exception clause from the 13th Amendment to the Constitution, which states, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Krystal shares how people on both sides of the walls and across the country can participate in this important action and show solidarity with the marchers. She also talks about the risks incarcerated people are taking to participate, and the struggles people face on the outside to support them. This episode also features currently incarcerated people from the Free Alabama Movement and Jailhouse Lawyers Speak

In episode 6 of Beyond Prisons, Brian Sonenstein and Kim Wilson speak with Maya Schenwar about her book, "Locked Down, Locked Out: Why Prison Doesn't Work and How We Can Do Better."  Maya discusses her experience living a "dual reality" as a journalist covering incarceration and as someone with a sibling who has been incarcerated multiple times while struggling with addiction. She shares her thoughts on the detachment common among journalists who cover the justice system and how their relationships with law enforcement are accepted as standard. "The view from nowhere is a view from power," she said. She also talks about the importance of pen-palling with incarcerated people and how it has shaped her work and knowledge of the issue.  We talk about the struggles facing incarcerated mothers and pregnant women—from the various ways they are forced into the prison system to their experiences finding basic, humane medical treatment behind bars and the harm of separating families. In this emotional interview, we hea

Brian Sonenstein and Kim Wilson speak with Akeem Browder, founder of the campaign to Shut Down Rikers Island and the Kalief Browder Foundation. Akeem’s brother, Kalief, died by suicide in 2015 after spending three years at the notorious jail complex. His tragic story helped catalyze reform efforts in New York City. During the interview, Akeem tells the story of his own unjust arrest and experiences on Rikers as a young teenager, years before Kalief's incarceration. He relates how they both experienced the New York City Department Of Corrections' infamous culture of brutality firsthand and endured numerous assaults by law enforcement and other inmates. He shares advice he gave Kalief based on his own experiences and addresses the urgent need to improve mental health research, diagnoses, and treatment regarding incarcerated and formerly incarcerated people. Akeem also comments on the status of the campaign to close Rikers Island and the $1 billion earmarked for new "community jails." He described his experience

In this candid and personal interview, Brian Sonenstein and Kim Wilson speak with Five Mualimm-ak about his life, reintegration, and why he's fighting to abolish prisons by any means necessary. In the late 1990s, Five was a community leader and successful real estate investor until he was convicted of crimes he didn't commit. He spent 12 years in prison, including 5 years in solitary confinement. On the day of his release, Five had a panic attack that landed him in the emergency room and then at Bellevue. Homeless for two years, he went back to prison for failing to appear for a meeting with his PO, and he was sent back to prison to serve the remainder of his sentence. These and other experiences have informed Five's expansive and influential work with communities directly impacted by incarceration in New York and across the nation. Learn more about Five's work: Incarcerated Nation Corporation (INC) Follow Five on Twitter: @MrFiveINC -- Please listen, subscribe, and rate/review our podcast on iTunes. Send us

Do we need prisons? This week, Kim Wilson and Brian Sonenstein discuss Angela Davis' book, "Are Prisons Obsolete?" The book is an excellent starting point for people who are new to prison abolition and for anyone who wants to better understand the prison industrial complex. Kim and Brian pick out some of their favorite sections, digging deeper into topics like the inevitability of prisons and the religious foundations of incarceration. They also talk about the various struggles facing incarcerated women, and how prisons touch all of our lives even if we've never been incarcerated. --- Read "Are Prisons Obsolete?" by Angela Davis Please listen, subscribe, and rate/review our podcast on iTunes. Send us tips, comments, and questions: beyondprisonspodcast@gmail.com Follow us on Twitter: @Beyond_Prison @phillyprof03 @bsonenstein Music & Production: Jared Ware

Kim and Brian talk with Dr. Anthony Monteiro, who is a long-time prison abolitionist, activist, scholar, and one of the foremost authorities on the scholarship and life of W.E. B. Du Bois. We discuss Dr. Monteiro 's work as a prison abolitionist, the influence that Du Bois and James Baldwin had on him, and how their writings remain relevant today. Dr. Monteiro answers the question "what does it mean to be human?" --- Please listen, subscribe, and rate/review our podcast on iTunes. Send us tips, comments, and questions: beyondprisonspodcast@gmail.com Follow us on Twitter: @Beyond_Prison @phillyprof03 @bsonenstein Music & Production: Jared Ware

Welcome to Beyond Prisons: a new podcast examining incarceration in America through an abolitionist lens.  In our first episode, hosts Kim Wilson and Brian Sonenstein introduce the idea behind the podcast, dissect and critique the current conversation around prison reform, and discuss the need for a broader vision for justice that should guide those efforts. What is prison abolition and what would it mean to live in a world without prisons? What's missing from current efforts to reform the criminal justice system? What kind of topics will this podcast cover? We tackle these questions and more in our first episode. Going forward, we will conduct interviews and delve much deeper into the various issues we touch upon in this first episode. So, stay tuned! -- Follow us on Twitter: @Beyond_Prison @phillyprof03 @bsonenstein Music & Production: Jared Ware -- Transcript Brian: Hello everybody and welcome to the first episode of Beyond Prisons. I am one of your hosts Brian Sonenstein and I’m joined by my co-host K